Christian Engström, Pirate MEP

1 maj 2012

Pirate Party Presents ACTA Alternative to European Parliament

Read more at Torrentfreak

Torrentfreak writes:

Pirate Party MEP Christian Engstrom and the Pirate movement’s founder Rick Falkvinge presented their views on copyright reform to the European Parliament this week. The Pirates want to bust the myth that their ideas only center around legalizing file-sharing and offer what they see as sensible alternatives to draconian legislation such as ACTA and SOPA.

Read more at Torrentfreak and download The Case for Copyright Reform

18 kommentarer

  1. ”The Pirates want to bust the myth that their ideas only center around legalizing file-sharing”

    But this is not a myth, this is the truth.

    ”The Pirate Party doesn’t want to abolish copyright, they want to reform it. For example, the moral rights of authors would remain unchanged, but all non-commercial copying would be legalized.”

    So what is ”non-commercial copying”? Note that the persons behind The Pirate Bay have been convicted in Sweden, they run their site on a commercial basis, this must then be commercial copying. The Swedish Pirate Party supports The Pirate Bay in action, delivering bandwidth to their search engine.

    Again, no myth.

    Any doubts regarding the The Pirate Bay and commercial copying?

    According to the article in The Guardian, regarding that British ISPs will block The Pirate Bay:

    ”According to record labels, The Pirate Bay generated up to $3m (£1.8m) from advertising last October by making 4m copies of music and films available to its 30 million users worldwide. The site has 3.7 million users in the UK, according to comScore.”

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/apr/30/british-isps-block-pirate-bay?newsfeed=true

    Kommentar av nejtillpirater — 1 maj 2012 @ 12:27

  2. [...] ”Pirate MEP” Christian Engström har mage att påstå att det är en myt att Piratpartiet är ett fildelarparti. Via sin support av TPB visar de ju [...]

    Pingback av The Pirate Bay blockeras i Storbritannien « Nej till pirater och Piratpartiet — 1 maj 2012 @ 12:30

  3. Well done Christian. It is always of importance to give an alternative when you criticize the current order of things

    Kommentar av JohJoh — 1 maj 2012 @ 12:36

  4. @Pelle/Urban/nejtillpirater — 1 maj 2012 @ 12:27

    > ”So what is ”non-commercial copying”?”

    Copying without intent to profit financially from it. It’s called non-profit use, and it’s a well established concept in society. Non-profit or non-commercial copying is already legal in many countries around the world, so the legislation has no problem defining it, regardless of your problem with understanding it. It’s a concept that has been explained to you several times before, so why do you ask?

    > ”Note that the persons behind The Pirate Bay have been convicted in Sweden, they run their site on a commercial basis, this must then be commercial copying.”

    Are you having a problem keeping apart the act of copying, from the act of running a search engine?

    > ”The Swedish Pirate Party supports The Pirate Bay in action, delivering bandwidth to their search engine.

    Again, no myth.”

    No one has claimed that the Pirate Party’s legal support to the fully legal site Pirate Bay is a myth? Why do you use straw-man arguments?

    > ”Any doubts regarding the The Pirate Bay and commercial copying?”

    Doubts about what? The fully legal search engine Pirate Bay has no relevance whatsoever to what constitutes non-commercial copying. Copying is what individuals perform between themselves.

    Whether or not search engines operate with intent to profit is completely irrelevant. As is unsubstantiated claims by the record industry, published in tabloids.

    In fact, your entire comment is completely irrelevant to the paragraphs you comment on.

    Kommentar av Fredrika — 1 maj 2012 @ 13:13

  5. ”According to record labels, The Pirate Bay generated up to $3m (£1.8m) from advertising last October…”

    It must be true since ‘record labels’ say it. They have full insight in The Pirate Bay’s economy, right? They have never exaggerated their losses and the pirates income in the past, right?
    I wonder why the record labels don’t create their own search engine since it seems to be so profitable.

    Kommentar av Patrik — 1 maj 2012 @ 13:19

  6. Good job Christian Engstrom and Rick Falkvinge! The Pirate Party party has done a great work of pointing out the drawbacks of the current copyright legislation and how it violates basic civil rights so far. In general however, when copyright is being discussed there is always the question regarding the alternatives to the current copyright system. I think it is great that you have made a summary on how the Pirate Party wants to reform the copyright legislation to better benefit society and the creators. This will give the pirates an edge in the debates since it is always good to present an alternative when one criticises something.

    Kommentar av erik — 1 maj 2012 @ 13:43

  7. @Patrik #5

    ”I wonder why the record labels don’t create their own search engine since it seems to be so profitable.”

    And Volvo should make fake cars and sell them cheaper than their ordinary cars?

    Kommentar av nejtillpirater — 1 maj 2012 @ 16:03

  8. According to the article in The Guardian, regarding that British ISPs will block The Pirate Bay:

    ”According to record labels, The Pirate Bay generated up to $3m (£1.8m) from advertising last October by making 4m copies of music and films available to its 30 million users worldwide. The site has 3.7 million users in the UK, according to comScore.”

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/apr/30/british-isps-block-pirate-bay?newsfeed=true

    Kommentar av Professor — 1 maj 2012 @ 19:30

  9. Disregard that last comment. It was a result of a failed copy from my part.

    @ Nejtillpirater

    ”The Pirates want to bust the myth that their ideas only center around legalizing file-sharing”

    But this is not a myth, this is the truth.

    It’s a myth and something that becomes crystal clear to everyone capable of reading and that have an actual interest of both reading as well as understanding the Pirate Party’s manifesto.

    Your claim is as accurate as your repeated assertions that one could liken copying with theft, political organizations with mafia organizations or any other of your strange ideas being completely divorced from reality.

    ”The Pirate Party doesn’t want to abolish copyright, they want to reform it. For example, the moral rights of authors would remain unchanged, but all non-commercial copying would be legalized.”

    So what is ”non-commercial copying”?

    The act of copying something with no intention of making a profit from it.

    Note that the persons behind The Pirate Bay have been convicted in Sweden, they run their site on a commercial basis, this must then be commercial copying.

    So it’s not enough for you to continually spread fallacies like that one could liken copying with theft and political organizations with mafia organizations, now you are even trying to liken the act of running commercial sites with commercial copying. That’s just insane. Your arguments are flawed, illogical and not at all connected to reality.

    The Swedish Pirate Party supports The Pirate Bay in action, delivering bandwidth to their search engine. Again, no myth.

    There is no one trying to deny the fact that The Pirate Party is supporting the search engine The Pirate Bay. Why this strawmen argument if I may ask?

    Any doubts regarding the The Pirate Bay and commercial copying?

    The doubts would then lie on your side, considering the fact that you both had to ask about the meaning of non-commercial copying and thereafter clearly showed us all that you have absolutely no idea what constitutes commercial copying.

    According to the article in The Guardian, regarding that British ISPs will block The Pirate Bay:

    ”According to record labels, The Pirate Bay generated up to $3m (£1.8m) from advertising last October by making 4m copies of music and films available to its 30 million users worldwide. The site has 3.7 million users in the UK, according to comScore.”

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/apr/30/british-isps-block-pirate-bay?newsfeed=true

    So according to the very same record labels that outright lies about The Pirate Bay making available copies of copyrighted materials to their users, they are also making money from advertising? What is your point here?

    Whether The Pirate Bay makes money from advertising or not does in no way change the simple fact that they are not occupying themselves with commercial copying.

    Kommentar av Professor — 1 maj 2012 @ 19:32

  10. @ Nejtillpirater

    @Patrik #5

    ”I wonder why the record labels don’t create their own search engine since it seems to be so profitable.”

    And Volvo should make fake cars and sell them cheaper than their ordinary cars?

    Analogies is clearly not your thing…

    The Pirate Bay is a search engine and is in no way selling fake music and movies. So you are not only having troubles with the concepts of copying vs theft, and commercial vs non-commercial copying, now you sound more confused than ever by showing signs of having absolutely no clue whatsoever as to how The Pirate Bay website actually operates. That’s really remarkable considering all the times you have been cocksure regarding the legality of torrent search engines.

    Kommentar av Professor — 1 maj 2012 @ 19:45

  11. @Professor

    It’s hardly the first time nejtillpirater has posted factless drivel in screaming contempt of reality. This time he has exceeded himself as every last statement he made in his original post, bar what he actually quotes, was a directly demonstrable falsehood.

    Since he has himself kindly asked us to demonstrate where he can be shown to lie, I would suggest everyone else do as I have as a habit these days. Put a copy of his post in a .txt file for later retrieval.

    Kommentar av Scary Devil Monastery — 2 maj 2012 @ 9:52

  12. @Scary #11

    My comment (#1) was a direct response to Christians statements.

    Your comment regarding my person is off topic, ad hominen, trolling or all of those.

    Kommentar av nejtillpirater — 2 maj 2012 @ 19:35

  13. @nejtillpirater — 2 maj 2012 @ 19:35

    > ”My comment (#1) was a direct response to Christians statements.”

    You mean your comment which has absolutely nothing to do with Christian’s post?

    > ”Your comment regarding my person is off topic, ad hominen, trolling or all of those.”

    He did not comment on your person, did you miss that? He commented on what you —> wrote <—.

    Again you prove that you have absolutely no understanding whatsoever for what that actually constitutes trolling, Ad Hominen, personal attacks or logical fallacies. Which i guess is the reason why you're completely incapable of posting one single post without resorting to them.

    Three years and you still haven't learned.. Skickligt.

    Kommentar av Fredrika — 2 maj 2012 @ 19:46

  14. @ Nejtillpirater

    @Scary #11

    My comment (#1) was a direct response to Christians statements.

    Whether or not your first comment was a direct response to Christian’s statements is completely irrelevant to the points laid forward by Scary Devil Monastery. Did you even read his post before you hit reply with your dishonest strawman?

    Your comment regarding my person is off topic, ad hominen, trolling or all of those.

    Or rather none of them considering the simple and verifiable fact that Scary Devil Monastery didn’t comment regarding your person. Yet another dishonest strawman from your side.

    What’s even more remarkable is that there is 3 comments on this page from the signature Nejtillpirater and not a single one of them contains objective, factual and relevant arguments.

    Instead they are populated with outright lies, fallacies, dishonest strawmans, utterly illogical analogies and conclusions, great lack of understanding around common concepts or the operation of the website in question, among many other things.

    But yes, according to you it’s Scary Devil Monastery who is the troll around here simply by pointing out your fallacies, not you who constantly monitor this blog and in your propaganda war against pirates repeatedly posts the same lies, fallacies, dishonest strawmans, ad hominem, slander, utterly illogical analogies, utterly illogical conclusions, lacks the understanding of simple terms like copying and theft, refuses to learn the meaning of above mentioned terms, refuses to learn fundamental facts about the very topics that are being discussed, hypocritically demands of criminals to stand for their actions while still hiding from your own criminal acts on this blog (slander for once), are deeming political organizations to be worse than mafia organizations, lacks respect of the presumption of innocence principle, and much much more.

    Kommentar av Professor — 2 maj 2012 @ 20:51

  15. @ Scary Devil Monastery

    It’s hardly the first time nejtillpirater has posted factless drivel in screaming contempt of reality. This time he has exceeded himself as every last statement he made in his original post, bar what he actually quotes, was a directly demonstrable falsehood.

    No, it’s hardly the first time. It’s more of a rule than an exception actually.

    Since he has himself kindly asked us to demonstrate where he can be shown to lie, I would suggest everyone else do as I have as a habit these days. Put a copy of his post in a .txt file for later retrieval.

    I still have the list I collected long ago and with which I have already confronted Nejtillpirater, as did others with their own lists in that particular thread. Since then I haven’t really built upon the lists for the simple reason being that the text file would grow so rapidly that I would be forced to implement some kind of database to manage all the information.

    It does feel like too much of a work for a person that singlehanded have destroyed every ounce of reputation measured by any objective standards.

    Kommentar av Professor — 2 maj 2012 @ 21:03

  16. I would recommend any decent type of calendar with a query function. Then just copy-paste whatever gibberish was put forth. It takes all of ten minutes, I should think. And given that I had to expend that easily every time ”nejtillpirater” said something which I knew to be a direct contradiction of his previous statements on the issue just searching CE’s forum, it seemed worthwhile.

    I suppose we could leave him to hoist himself with his own petard – as he usually does, since almost no thread on this forum goes by without him fundamentally contradicting something he’s said earlier.

    But I don’t think it’s in either your, mine, or Fredrika’s nature to let a person spew illogical nonsense and insinuant slander all over a thread without countering with fact and reason.

    Kommentar av Scary Devil Monastery — 3 maj 2012 @ 8:34

  17. Nejtillpirater: well if copying cars for free (over the internet or by some other copying machine) was possible, then Volvo would be real stupid to keep doing factory manufacturing of cars. Actually so fucking stupid they’d deserve to be copied alot. Forcing people to pay for something which technology has made possible to do for free is stupid ego-conservatism. We’ve seen that kind of politics before in history.. the people advocating it are always portrayed as conservative egos in the aftermath. I wouldn’t have forgiven anyone trying to thwart the industrial revolution to protect their business in the 1800s or 1900s.. people of tomorrow won’t forgive us if we try and stop all the advances of more modern technology and business that the internet in it’s free form can give us.

    Kommentar av ForskarGurra — 7 maj 2012 @ 8:42

  18. …and this just in. In Germany, the pirate party just took 8,2% of the votes in Schleswig-Holstein. That’s Solid Pirate representation now in three German states (Berlin, Saarland, Schleswig). Looks like every time today where there is an election, the pirates enter. It very much looks like Christian’s and Amelia will be getting some solid reinforcements next EU election.

    Kommentar av Scary Devil Monastery — 7 maj 2012 @ 9:32


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